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Next thread: Niche triggering by Meerkat11/9 14:58Wed Sep 11 14:58:58 2019view thread

Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 12:38Wed Sep 11 12:38:56 2019

Views: 388

/www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/10/jeremy-corbyn-extension-workers-rights-labour-tuc-congress

Decent sounding first half about an agency looking after workers rights......don’t need unions then ;-)

while a new civil enforcement system would be established to ensure gender pay commitments were upheld.
Would become a politicised bureaucratic nightmare.

Banning zero hours contracts seems knee jerk politics when there are workers and situations where they are most appropriate solution (exclusive zero hours contracts should be banned though)

However this!
Sectoral collective bargaining would be introduced by establishing a councils of worker and employer representatives to negotiate agreements with minimum terms, conditions and standards for the whole of a particular sector.
That is just utterly bonkers, and a total jobs killer

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By DesCartes11/9 14:17Wed Sep 11 14:17:12 2019In response to Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 219

A useful deflection from the travails of Johnson the Juvenile?

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 14:18Wed Sep 11 14:18:39 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 219

Wtf are you on about?

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Leeds Sandgrounder11/9 12:59Wed Sep 11 12:59:46 2019In response to Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 312

"Politicised bureaucratic nightmare" is the whole point of a government body set up to get companies to give money to people they don't want to give money to.

Why is it "bonkers" or "a jobs killer"? I doubt it would be very effective because rich people tend to be very good at making people feel important in order to get them to do their dirty work for them, which is what would probably happen to these "worker representatives".

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 13:09Wed Sep 11 13:09:01 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 294

Gender pay equality is a lot of ill informed shouting that ignores many basic facts.
You don’t think sectoral pay bargaining is crazy communist nonsense? Trying to get all the shop owners in a room to agree what they want?
And the workers reps would just be Union officials with little to no connection to the workers and more interest in pushing national political strategies than the good of local workers.

You could well be right about the reps being owned by the employers though. Had a friend in a highly unionised job with loads of stories about dubious union elections as reps desperate to keep their 9-5, no actual work, positions that the company lets them have in return for being pliant.
But that is a problem with socialism, not employers - “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Leeds Sandgrounder11/9 13:46Wed Sep 11 13:46:37 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 263

I think it is a reasonable idea that is no longer possible due to the destruction of civilised values over the last 40 years, like most good things in life.

Employers being exploitative bastards is the fault of socialism. Another belter.

Edited by Leeds Sandgrounder at 13:47:23 on 11th September 2019

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Joe Hawkins11/9 15:15Wed Sep 11 15:15:59 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 166

That's a sensible post and one I agree with.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 13:47Wed Sep 11 13:47:53 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 225

Industrial relations in this country were poisoned and politicised more than 40 years ago.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Leeds Sandgrounder11/9 13:49Wed Sep 11 13:49:03 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 233

Life generally. There's always some selfish cunt ruining everything for everyone.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Baldman (Baldman)11/9 14:04Wed Sep 11 14:04:43 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 208

I think we are locked into a self defeating game of one-upmanship on who works hardest. It’s like the Protestant work ethic on steroids.

MK said yesterday that his economics teacher said that the industrial revolution didn’t happen in Spain because catholic’s are lazy. There’s a grain of truth in that but what happened in Spain is that as processes became more efficient and they could produce what they needed in shorter time, they took the rest of the time off for leisure. This is a completely sensible response if you ask me.

Calvinists however believe in work for its own sake as well as asceticism. So as production became more efficient, they carried on working just as hard and didn’t increase spending. This led to surpluses that could be invested etc etc. The birth of capitalism.

What we have now is Calvinism without the faith... we have an echo in our head telling us that work and trying harder are good things to do. And that self denial and saving is a good thing to do. But why? There is no god and if there was he wouldn’t give a toss what we did as long as we didn’t hurt other people.

Progress means we should all be working 3 day weeks and spending our time pursuing things that make us happy. But we don’t. We are caught in a destructive loop of internal competition... who is working harder. Who is providing for the family best. Who has the best car. Etc etc.

The modern hypercapitalist economy is like when Rimmer got a Rimmer hologram as a companion. It’s a dystopian nightmare.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 14:12Wed Sep 11 14:12:19 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 201

God got replaced with competitive consumerism.
Families used to support decent houses on one wage. But you don’t really get the choice now as prices are driven by those with two wages.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Pol Pot11/9 14:18Wed Sep 11 14:18:01 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 197

Feminism has been used by Capitalists to exploit us all.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 13:52Wed Sep 11 13:52:27 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 220

And that’s why socialism/anarchy is doomed to fail.
Cue Skippy telling us it worked in some small self-selected community once upon a time.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Leeds Sandgrounder11/9 13:54Wed Sep 11 13:54:29 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 222

It's generally your mob that have contributed to our arrival at the total joylessness and futility we all enjoy today.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 14:09Wed Sep 11 14:09:42 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 201

How do you work that out?

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Leeds Sandgrounder11/9 14:13Wed Sep 11 14:13:15 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 201

Generally creating a society where horrible cunts are rewarded for horrible cuntery, and doing their best to breed a load of mental illness into everyone else.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 14:17Wed Sep 11 14:17:52 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 204

You preferred downtrodden poverty?

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Baldman (Baldman)11/9 14:52Wed Sep 11 14:52:38 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 189

It was a binary choice?

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 14:58Wed Sep 11 14:58:00 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 172

Well he started the ridiculous statements

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Leeds Sandgrounder11/9 14:54Wed Sep 11 14:54:22 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 175

I'm not sure there's any point even beginning with that one.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Leeds Sandgrounder11/9 14:18Wed Sep 11 14:18:25 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 199

Yes. Thank God nobody is unnecessarily unhappy any more.

Edited by Leeds Sandgrounder at 14:20:44 on 11th September 2019

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Baldman (Baldman)11/9 13:07Wed Sep 11 13:07:20 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 281

Collective bargaining never works. That is why germany has been such an economic powerhouse basketcase for the last few decades

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 13:10Wed Sep 11 13:10:46 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 274

Do they have sectoral bargaining?
Chicken or egg? If you are making shitloads of money it is easier to get on with your staff.

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Baldman (Baldman)11/9 13:11Wed Sep 11 13:11:36 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 263

Yes

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Meerkat11/9 13:19Wed Sep 11 13:19:58 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 265

Interesting.
/www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries/Germany/Collective-Bargaining

Are the unions far less political than ours then? It does sound like the agreements are wider (job wise), which might mean less incentive to strike.

Reading a bit more sectoral bargaining in Germany is far from comprehensive, and dropping fast. Seems to be concentrated either in the public sector, which is largely already sectoral bargaining here due to centralisation, or large scale primary and manufacturing companies, which we don’t have a lot of (or are happy without - would our car workers want to lose their company deals?)
It is also rarely compulsory for the companies to obey the deals if they aren’t in the trade association negotiating.

Edited by Meerkat at 13:43:10 on 11th September 2019

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Re: Corbyn the commie

By Slim Jim11/9 14:05Wed Sep 11 14:05:17 2019In response to Re: Corbyn the commieTop of thread

Views: 202

Our former boss's neighbour managed a multinational engineering firm.

After one round of pay increases he was approached by the German Unions. Apparently they were concerned that the rises were too generous and may affect the longer term viability of the company.

Of course it may just have been a ruse as to why we weren't getting huge rises.

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Previous thread: I'll just leave this here...... by Bork11/9 12:19Wed Sep 11 12:19:17 2019view thread